The Weight of the Unbearable Lightness in Reality
A Conversation on Skype about RMB City Between Jiang Jun and Hu Fang
(From 11:30:36 pm to 0:42:14 am, 29-30 Oct, 2007)
Jiang Jun: JJ, Hu Fang: HF
HF: RMB City is a new city built in Second Life by Cao Fei (as China Tracy). It is a spatial mosaic of the presence and the future of China. What do you think about this hybrid? Is this hybrid development the reflection of urban development in China?
JJ: The hybrid mode, or to be more precise, the combination of international fad and Chinese characteristics in the specific context of the present China, is indeed inevitable during the transformation of China. RMB City is not necessarily a replication of it though.
HF: Indeed, it’s rather the reflection of the artist’s individual experiences, a light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek creation. What’s interesting is that a “China Town” gets implanted into Second Life.
JJ: When we observe the urbanization of China and go deeper beyond its surrealist moments and absurdity on the superficial level, we’ll see the causes of them.
HF: Right, the urbanization of China is not without a bit of surrealism, yet it’s being supported by a kind of adaptive and flexible survival wisdom, it’s a growing spectacle. What’s your view on the “index”, so to speak, of the social spaces in China as presented by RMB City?
JJ: There are two aspects that I find interesting: how a reality controlled by powerful order and state apparatus managed to produce a kind of hyper-reality which seemingly loses control; and the way in which virtual reality simulates reality on a more profound level.
HF: The virtual reality has become the entry to the new space of Second Life, there’s a kind of parallel development, “Parallel Universe” maybe?
JJ: Second Life is a product that has deep implications, it’s the inevitable consequence of virtual space and the internet. And RMB City is the inevitable consequence of Second Life, which does a wonderful job in simulating reality logically. RMB City is really a subset of Second Life.
JJ: I’m sure there are a lot in the virtual space that run parallel to reality, and they are not necessarily space- or visibility-dependent.
JJ: Rather, those parallel factors depend on some of the fundamental “universal equivalents”, such as power structure, capital, social network, etc.
HF: Second Life is precisely a way back to reality, it depends on the re-understanding of both capital and reality, in the end, capital gets new space of circulation, and people get new way of communication.
HF: The title of RMB City (RMB is the abbreviation of “renminbi”,literally,”people’s money in Chinese) implicates that the energy of Second Life goes beyond simple replantation of simulacra, it also has something to do with the fact that the way in which capital runs and people socialize has fundamentally changed.
HF: Social network has also become a way that capital adds value to itself.
JJ: Second Life can be considered a mainstream product, in that it employs visualized image and spatial language, which, when combined with 2.0 technologies, triggered changes of the social relation in the virtual world.
JJ: However, virtual societies are not going to generate new relationship between different classes. The on-going “initial development” of virtual land represents a kind of rather primitive social relationship.
HF: It’s probably not as complex as in the real world, but it certainly adds to one’s experience. As “soft capital”, experience can be cashed in real life. To me, what’s interesting in the process is a new scheme for urban development proposed by the artist, who has created necessary condition in which the scheme can be realized. What’s important is the possibility to co-develop within that condition, and how one can mediate the development of this city.
HF: And this development doesn’t necessarily lead to anything, it could be a nihilist process, leaving behind experiences and documents.
JJ: Here’s the difference: though primitive, a virtual society can always be rebooted, it’s “undoable”. Those can’t be undone are without exception reality-related, which is to say, they rely on the weight of reality.
HF: In reality we would talk about certain urban developments as disasters, while in Second Life, everything is still a game, a “second life of unbearable lightness”—despite the fact that the currency circulated within Second Life can be converted to US dollar.
JJ: So there is indeed a sense of luckiness or disaster when you do that conversion, because at that moment, you are hooked up with reality.
JJ: Disaster is also a complex concept which gets simplified in most of the games.
JJ: Currently there isn’t any disaster in RMB City, because there is no conflict between different classes and interest groups.
HF: Very interesting. Also, because of the complexity of real life, people have been seeking an imaginary space with “common sensibility” where they can communicate and develop. However, it’s the necessary contradiction and conflict that bring life to real-life cities.
JJ: For developers, the first priority is how to develop this piece of land or this city, especially after the first phase of construction is finished. I think the potential will be fully explored when more non-artist netizens become fascinated and engaged with the “new city”.
HF: This is exactly what we are looking forward to.
HF: RMB City is the individual creation of an artist, we are curious to see how and to what extent it’s going to evolve into a new space for communication and development, whether it will aggregate the mind power of intellectuals from all walks of life. What would be your plan if Urban China is invited to do a project within a space in RMB City?
JJ: I think we will first make several proposals to optimize Second Life, and then build a city within to exemplify them.
HF: A city within a city.
HF: Do you think there’s gonna be a connection between the development of RMB City and the real-life cities?
JJ: Probably not. Even there’s gonna be superficial similarities, they would be fundamentally different; simply dreams of individuals.
JJ: Personally, I still believe that although art is exploring reality, the latter often surpasses the former in unbelievable ways in terms of speed, quality and weight.
HF: In a sense, the weight of reality is too much and too un-retraceable. On the other hand, art, as parasite, churns out suspended spaces continuously, which prompts us to reconsider the possibilities of spatial production. Interestingly, today any mode of spatial production will bring about new mode of economics.
JJ: The function of art is to creatively mimic reality, but nowadays multiple “self-mimicking” are made possible by information technology. In the future, artist would have to be the expert of a certain aspect in real life (from politician to hacker) in order to create art in a more profound way.
HF: Today, the power of artistic creation lies in the artist’s capability of domain-shifting, and the possibilities this shifting may generate. A real estate developer can be an artist, and vice versa.
JJ: Which means the ability to modify definitions and tacit rules.
HF: RMB City is exactly this kind of experiment which indicates the “domain-transition”, what we are seeing now is only the first step, the City will evolve along with the changing reality.
Jiang Jun: The chief editor of Urban China magazine;
Hu Fang: The artistic director of Vitamin Creative Space.
——————–
不可承受之轻在现实中的重量
姜珺与胡昉关于“人民城寨”的Skype对话
胡昉：ＨＦ，姜珺：ＪＪ
(时间：2007年10月29日晚上 11：30：36至10月30日凌晨 0：42：14 )
HF: 人民城寨是曹斐以China Tracy的名义在Second Life
（第二人生，以下简称SL）里面作的一个新城,是对中国现状和未来的空间拼图,你怎样看待拼贴这种混合模式,是不是混合型的发展模式就是中国城市发展的现实反映？
JJ: 混合模式,或者国际潮流+中国特色在当下特定语境下的结合,的确是转型时期中国的一个必然过程,但并不是说RMB City就是复制了这一过程。
HF: 当然,它更多的是从艺术家个体角度的一种体验式的反映,带有轻松戏谑的成份,比较有意思的是它将在SL里面植入这样一个“中国城”。
JJ: 我们观察今天的中国城市化,尽管其结果有时体现出强烈的超现实性和荒诞,但深入分析往往能够找到其中的系统成因
HF: 是的,中国城市化的现实本身带有超现实性,但却是由适用性和灵活的生存哲学支撑着,它是一种生长中的奇观,但不是为了满足理论上的需要,你怎么看与RMB City相关的中国社会空间索引?
JJ: 我个人觉得有意思的有两方面:一是由强大的秩序和体制控制的现实如何产生貌似失控的超现实;另一方面,虚拟现实如何从内在品质方面模拟现实。
HF: 模拟现实成了进入SL新空间的入口,它造成了一种平行的发展,“平行的世界”?
JJ: SECOND LIFE是一个很有深度的产品,也是虚拟空间和互联网的必然结果,而RMB City则是Seocond Life的必然结果, Second Life很好地从逻辑上模拟了现实, RMB City是它的一个子集。
JJ: 虚拟空间和现实空间一定是存在着广泛的平行性的,而且不依赖于空间和可视性。
JJ: 而依赖于更加根本的“一般等价物”, 如权属、资本、社会关系等。
HF: SL恰恰是重新植回现实的方式,依靠的是对资本和现实的双重重新理解,从而资本寻找到新的流通空间,人们又开拓了新的交流方式。
HF: RMB City从名称上(人民城寨)已经暗示了SL的生命力不仅在于哲学上的对拟像的再植,而且,也在于今天的资本运行和人们的关系发生了根本的转化。
HF: 关系也成了资本增殖的方式。
JJ: Second Life是一个大众产品,在于它采用了可视化的形象和空间语言,这种语言和2.0技术结合起来,使得虚拟社会关系产生了一定的变化。
JJ: 但根本上,虚拟社会各阶层之间的关系不会有更新的发明,甚至由于目前虚拟土地的“初放开发”,这种关系可能比现实更为原始。
HF: 它可能缺乏在现实空间中的复杂性,但有可能增生体验,而体验作为软资本,会在现实中兑现。在这个过程中,我觉得有意思的是:艺术家提出了一种新的城市发展计划,并创造出条件,重要的是在其中共同发展的可能性,怎么介入这个城市的发展。
HF: 而这种城市发展并非一定导向特定的结果,很有可能就是虚无的,只留下体验和纪录。
JJ: 区别在于,虚拟社会尽管初级,但很多体验可以重来,可以undo,不可以重来的都是和现实挂钩的,也就是说,借用了现实的重量。
HF: 在现实中,我们经常会说到城市发展的灾难,但在SL中,还是游戏人生,不可承受之轻的“第二人生”,尽管SL的货币能兑换成美金。
JJ: 所以说能兑换成美金是真正有幸运感或灾难感的,因为和现实接驳上了。
JJ: 灾难也是一个复杂的概念,但在很多游戏中被简化了。
JJ: 从目前来看, RMB CITY还根本不存在灾难,因为缺乏社会各阶层、各集团和各利益体之间的对抗。
HF: 这个很有意思,也正因为现实生活错综复杂,人们寻求一个想象中可以有“共同质量”的空间,来进行交流和发展,但同时,必要的矛盾和对抗却是现实城市发展中真正的活力。
JJ: 作为发展商,关键是这块地,这座城市如何发展,尤其在首期建成之后;更有潜力的还是如何让艺术圈外的网民乐此不疲的介入。
HF: 这恰恰是我们拭目以待的过程。
HF: RMB City是以艺术家个人名义的创造物,我们将好奇它在何种程度上将成为一个新的交流和发展的空间,会聚起来自不同方面的知识分子力量。如果邀请城市中国在里面的一个空间作项目,你会做什么 ?
JJ: 我想我们会先提出更多可以优化Second Life 的问题,然后做一个示范性的城市。
HF: 城市中的城市。
HF: 在RMB City和现实城市的发展中,你觉得最终会有联结点吗?
JJ: 很难,即使表面上相似,也是貌合神离;一个个人的梦境而已。
JJ: 我个人依然相信:尽管艺术在挖掘现实,但现实的速度、质量和重量通常都以不可思议的方式超越艺术。
HF: 现实的重量从某种意义上来说太重,太不可回溯,而艺术是在寄生中不断转换出悬而未决的空间, 而这,将使我们重新思考空间生产的多种可能性上,有趣的是,在今天,任何一种空间生产的模式都带来相应的经济模式。
JJ: 艺术的作用在于创造性地临摹现实,但今天的现实的信息化程度,足以产生了多样性的“自我临摹”;未来的艺术家将不得不成为现实中的某种专家(从政客到黑客),才能进行更深度的艺术创作。
HF: 今天,艺术创作的力量在于是其能否提出转换性方案,即它所带出的转换的可能性,一个地产商可以成为艺术家,艺术家也可以成为地产商。
JJ: 也就是有修改定义和潜规则的能力。
HF: RMB City就是这样一个联接虚(想象与虚拟现实)与实(现实和资本)的实验,而我们现在看到的新城模型只是第一步而已,它的自身将变化,而围绕着它的现实也在天天变化。
姜珺：《城市中国》主编；胡昉：维他命艺术空间艺术总监
